Earlier this year, Beverly Veil released her studio debut, an assortment of songs recounting her experiences, relationships, and trials as a musician in New York. The album marked a major stylistic shift in her music, taking a more singer-songwriter approach while maintaining the frank lyricism and unique vocals that made her previous punk and folk releases so compelling. Shortly after recording her session for WNYU’s flagship New Afternoon Show, I sat down with Veil and her band for a chat about baseball feuds, the trans music scene, and the journey to making For However Long.
Do you guys want to introduce yourselves?
Sasha: I’m Sasha, I was in The Hands but I’m still playing with Beverly.
You can do some self promo too if you want.
S: I’m also in Heaviness Fell, best band on the fucking planet!
Bee: I’m Bee Hall. I play guitar with Beverly and I used to play tambourine with The Hands. I have my own project too that’s conveniently enough called Bee Hall.
Well before we get to the music, I heard you two recently had a bit of a showdown?
Beverly: Oh yes, final game of the TGirl Baseball season, Highland Park Harlots versus the
Rockaway Beaches, you know I don’t want to start any controversy but…
BH: It was rigged!
BV: There were some calls that, uh, not everyone agreed with. We actually had our first real time video review because someone recorded it on their iPhone and that did affect the outcome of the game. And I’m just like, if you’re gonna do it for that you gotta do it for everything.
BH: You’re gonna get in trouble…
BV: So that’s all I’ll say about that. It’s all for content. I love everyone dearly!
BH: I love playing baseball with my friends, but yeah, there were some shenanigans.
BV: Well, we may be biased because we lost by one point.
Anyways, we’re here today to talk about Beverly Veil’s music. I have some questions about the album you cut recently. I guess not that recently?
BV: Well, in the last year.
I feel like this album touched on more personal topics and situations than your older material, so I wanted to know how the process of writing this album has changed how you interact with people, knowing that you might pull material from them.
BV: Well the funny thing about this album is that a large part of it is based around some advice I received from [Lex] Walton. She told me I needed to start writing more “evil music.” I asked what she meant by that and she said: “If the person the song is about finds out that it’s about them it should have a serious consequence to their mental health.”
And the first song I wrote with that logic was “You and Her,” which was kind of the precursor to the album, in terms of it being mainly about one person. I don’t know, it’s a lot to be that vulnerable and direct, but it does lead to a lot more typing lyrics into the notes app while you’re very very drunk instead of texting a person which I guess is maybe better for everyone eventually.
Is there anything in that personal process that you wouldn’t talk about or have taken steps to obscure?
BV: No. Because I feel like if I try to make something less direct there’s still going to be one person that knows exactly what I’m saying regardless, so it’s like, might as well.
I want to ask Bee about this as well. Your song “Halloween” just came out and it also touches on a story about one person.
BH: Yeah. I wrote that song forever ago and if you look at my discography you’ll see that there’s a three year gap between that and the last single I released, but I wrote it before that one. I wrote it around the same time I wrote “Park Song,” and they’re about the same person actually.
So I guess you were ready to sing about them?
BH: Yeah, well I was early in my transition and I was dating people from apps. An astute listener might notice that there aren’t any references to Halloween in the lyrics, but the name is because this girl invited me to a Halloween party and then uninvited me like two days before it happened. I was a bit butthurt about it. But then I shelved it and never recorded it until I came back to it a little less than a year ago when I started writing music again. Some of the newer lyrics aren’t as much informed by that place I was at, but I do tend to fixate on one or two things and write music about that.
Moving back to For However Long, I want to talk about the song “Loving Artists.” The album itself is very meta about being an artist, but the lyrics on this track “we can’t talk like normal people do/it’s all about how we walk, who’s in our crew” stood out. Could you tell us a bit more about that?
BV: Yeah, I feel like part of the state of music, especially if you’re in a space like the trans music scene, is a good bit of a showy aspect. I won’t lie, I gain a lot of attendance at my shows from my reputation at places. I’m glad that people also like the music but I know a lot of cases where people go to shows they don’t care about and chainsmoke outside for the entire set just to say they were there. A lot of the time it becomes less about the music, but I think part of it is the lack of trans exclusive spaces and some people have found a way to carve that out during shows. Especially more in the punk scene a few years ago. f you go here it’s like a trans event night.
Like if Purgatory is showing certain bands only trans people are going to show up.
BV: Yeah. You can see people you haven’t seen. You can do a little cruising. You can bring a first date and have a wonderful time. When a lot of that started to die down I think that’s why the whole Wonderville thing happened.
BH: Not gonna elaborate?
BV: What were we talking about again?
“Loving Artists.”
BV: That was also a song about a very specific person who is the epitome of what I am talking about.
Do you have a favorite song to perform off the new record? Or I guess have you figured out a new band arrangement to do it yet?
BV: That was the first time I performed anything off the new record! I think I’m close to figuring out a new band arrangement that will allow me to play “What’s Left” live. I have to ask the Good Morning Shepard people.
You also have another album out on Bandcamp right now, Strummin’…
S: Strummin’!
Strummin! Well what struck me in the liner notes was the really nice dedication you gave to Sasha. So I was wondering how you two met and what influence she’s had on your music?
BV: I remember the first time I met Sasha was at a show at Rubulad. She was playing with her old band and I remember being like, well I’ve watched a lot of live shows and I grew up in a house that threw shows so it’s a very rare thing for me to say, but I immediately thought she was a very special performer. The way she navigates the fretboard and puts the emotion into her vocals is very special.
S: I’m blushing!
BV: And from there I thought I’d just be a fan, but the band I was in after her band ended.
S: Well they did have some overlap. I think the first time I saw Faggot Band, oh shoot! FCC! F69 band I guess. Y’know the night before I joined the band broke up and I was like: “I’ll never play music again!” But then Beverly hit my line and asked if I wanted to play and I said yes.
BV: Poached! Like an egg!
S: Strummin’ was actually born over hot pot. We were playing one of the last Faggot Band shows in Montreal and I didn’t want to release music but Bev said we should do a split and I said ok. And I said we should call it something stupid like Strummin’.
Strummin’!
S: Strummin’! And that was…
BV: One more time! Strummin!
S: Strummin! How does it start again?
Well there’s a line on the cover right?
BV: “Like Salt and Butter.” I feel like that’s an accurate way to describe our vocal style.
What, so like seasoned for white people?
BH: Bro, that’s crazy. Wait which one is which?
S: I feel like obviously Beverly is butter and I’m salt. Beverly’s voice is smooth as silk and I’m a little pitch agnostic.
BV: We both play with texture a lot vocally. Also, with Strummin’ I was still trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I had started talking with Ariel about making the EP but I had no idea what it was going to look like. And I was already transitioning into a more folky realm and I had written those songs already. Well, except “Circle and the Vow” which I wrote the day before.
Yeah I wanted to talk about this transition. Obviously Strummin’ is very different from For However Long, so I was wondering where your music is headed next. Or what your musical influences will be.
BV: Well a large part of it is whoever I happen to be playing with. Especially now I’ve been playing a lot more for other people on the strings and talking to them about music. I was just playing a show with someone and he sent me a playlist of artists I hadn’t heard before. I’m very open to receiving the influence and building from there. But we do have some plans. Some talks for Strummin’ 2. Bee will be joining as well. My friend also really wants me to make a rock album with her. I still have a lot of old material that’s not quite punk, but is influenced by a band I used to listen to a lot called Black Rebel Motorcycle Club. It’s a lot more in that realm sonically. It’s all over the place though. It’s difficult for me to pin down on a genre.
Moving back to Sasha, you also exist across multiple genres. You play in Heaviness Fell and were part of Faggot Band both of which are pretty distinct. What direction are you planning to take your new material?
S: Well I really see Heaviness Fell as my biggest musical project, but I do also play in a band called One Hour Photo.
Oh yeah, the screamo band right?
S: Yeah, metalcore, screamo, sasscore.
BV: They’ve also been genre transitioning a little bit.
S: Yeah, we used to be an emo band, now we’re a screamo band. It’s just harder to play guitar for it now. But for Heaviness Fell I want to take it slow and loud.
I know you’ve talked before about not wanting people to mosh to Heaviness Fell, so will the new sound sufficiently deter moshers?
S: Please do not mosh. Well, I’d be pretty impressed if you could mosh to Heaviness Fell.
BV: They could start a pit to “Dead and Gone.”
Well they are moshing to Geese these days. During the most random songs.
BH: Are they?
Well not anymore, I guess it’s kind of dead now.
BH: I think it was happening at the show we were at together.
Just not where we were.
S: They’re not crowd killing at Geese though…
BH: They should be. Some of the people in that crowd deserve to get crowd killed. Or just normal killed. I mean it is the name of the album.
BV: False advertising.
S: I want to say it one more time, no moshing!
Beverly, you’re a big part of this trans scene in New York City and that’s how I found out about your music, but there’s this one Prairie Princess lyric that I’ve been thinking about a lot recently. On “Bombing Down Broadway” she sings “Are you going to start with the fact that I am trans before you talk about my art?” So I wanted to ask you how much you think being trans influences your art and if you think you’ve moved away from it as you’ve grown as a person and songwriter.
BV: I think that it honestly makes it easier to do the whole self referential, reading from a journal thing because there’s a safety blanket for being that vulnerable when you make something for a community you’re a part of. You don’t have to overexplain certain experiences that you’re trying to communicate. Like I know you already know about this so it’s not going to be confusing or uncomfortable for you to hear. But I do think that the whole trans music scene is slowly dying. Bills are still mostly trans within the scene but a lot more people who are not are coming to the shows. The stereotypes are already developing. There’s the whole joke of like, if you need a good guitarist just go find some trans girl and give her some ketamine or cocaine and she’ll be yours forever. All the memes about transfemme music that I’m seeing are about it being good, so there are a lot more people watching it, for better or worse.
Yeah, I mean the biggest frat kid at my school was talking about a SOPHIE song recently and it really shocked me.
BV: Yeah, it’s not limited to a genre, so there really is something for everyone. But then it becomes its own thing of “it’s going to be good because this person is trans” or the inverse. But for me personally, Faggot Band was very much an “I’m doing this for trans people” project. I spent a year going to the punk shows and figured out a script of how the nights typically go. I’d be in practice saying “We have to play this song at this moment. You play this song here when the people go to buy their girl a drink. You play this one so now they can dance and lightly touch up on each other. Then you play this song so they can still hear it from the bathroom. When they’re doing whatever they’re doing. Well it worked and I’ve told people about this formula before and I’ve found out that I did successfully start three relationships with it. But now it’s not at all as much of an influence with what I’m doing.
Bee or Sasha, do you have any thoughts on the trans scene?
BH: I guess I have a pretty unique perspective on this because when I first started releasing music and playing shows I was completely divorced from the trans music scene. I was, early in my transition, kinda intentionally isolating myself from that scene. And I’m happy with the art and not feeling steeped in that influence or catering to it, but at the same time it kinda sucked. I would play these bills at Rockwood Music Hall or Bowery Electric but the bills would not make any sense and there were lots of weird crowds. I was proud of the music I was making but I wasn’t finding people that were engaged or interested in it.
When I came back to recording I had met people like Beverly, Lex, and Sasha. And Alice Cohen, who played drums in my band and produced the new single. So I’m glad I had time removed from the scene to figure out my sound but at the same time having a community of people who are passionate and supportive of other artists is really important.
I get that, there’s definitely a built in audience. I mean to be honest I got into the whole scene because I’m trans and I found you from following all these other bands.
BV: Shoutout the Crush Fund lyric “all the gays we know each other and all the, we can’t say the word [laughs], even more.”
My friend claims she’s two degrees of separation from any trans woman in the city and I honestly believe her. Sasha, do you have anything you want to say?
S: I have a lot to say. I feel like the scene was very punk oriented when I joined up, but not punk exactly. I mean there is a real punk scene in New York and a lot of those people are transgender but it has little to no overlap with the scene we’re talking about. I really like trans people, and I think it’s important to be an artist first…
But…
S: But you know, I’ve heard the song “I am Transgender” many times.
BH: We can write more songs.
BV: Well now there’s two Puppygirl songs out in the world.
There’s even a movie! Dog Movie as well.
BV: Shoutout to the Puppygirl movie! That’s how my old band got signed even though we don’t exist anymore. Shoutout Milo and Henry.
Wrapping up, are there any other people or bands that you wanted to shout out? Not necessarily within the scene.
S: I really really like the band Duchess, I think they’re very good. I also like the band Good Morning Shepard, which Bev is now playing with. Kissing Noises is great as well, they just put out a record.
BH: Killer live shows from all those bands. Killer bass riffs. Shoutout Mike’s Way.
BV: Shoutout Mike’s Way! The most uncomfortable set I’ve been to in my life, but it was intentional. That’s the whole point.
BH: I’m glad I left before it all happened.
Wait what’s the story?
BH: Don’t explain it.
BV: What I’ll say is that I’ve never seen more girlfriends leave while their boyfriends stayed to watch. That was the vibe of this set. There was also a splash zone.
S: I do have beef with Mike’s Way because they got mayonnaise on my boyfriend.
Anything else you want to say? Any other beef?
BV: Fuck the Rockaway Beaches. Fuck the Rockaway Beaches. We should’ve won. TGirl Baseball forever.
BH: I have beef with a certain music venue off the Wilson Ave L stop. I won’t name it.
BV: There’s a lot of music venues there. You’re really leaving it up for interpretation.
BH: All of my opinions are solely my own, but they are facts.
BV: Well I’m constantly being destroyed by facts and logic. At least that’s what it feels like.