Allie X is getting ready. The 38 year-old singer’s newest album, Girl With No Face, introduced a new Allie to the world, one who’s added producing to her decades-long resume. She disappeared briefly, but during the 4 year hiatus, she’s had time to reconstruct her persona. Now, she’s back with a vengeance.
The Girl With No Face tour has been an overwhelming success, particularly for someone who has been a long-standing member of an industry that is rarely forgiving of any aging at all. The tour has sold out multiple locations, partly thanks to Allie’s cult following and partly due to the glitzy dark world built around the album. Before the version of Allie that shrieks siren synth-pop melodies graced the Racket stage, she sat quietly by herself, starting her stage transformation. As she crimped her hair, she talked to me about rebirth, being overqualified for her job, and how to make a hit.
What is it like going from an album being something in your private inner world to something anyone can access, especially an album as intrusive as this one?
I like that question. It really becomes something else for me once it’s out. It starts to belong less to me and more to other people. I think most artists would agree that it’s a nice transition, carrying the weight of something like that, especially [an album] like this that took me so many years to make and so many headaches. It’s nice to have it out in the world. The world is kind of a mirror, so it starts to look and feel differently and you find new meaning in it, actually, when it’s through someone else’s lens.
Are there any songs in particular that you’ve gained new perspectives on through audience reactions?
I don’t know if it can be summed up like that. It’s more like a feeling that the work just evolved into something different.
Speaking of evolution, your vocals are incredibly versatile. Listening to projects like Collxtion I and II then jumping to Girl With No Face one almost feels like an Avril Lavigne kidnapping situation.
[Laughing] I have too many voices, I think.
Is there such a thing?
I don’t know, sometimes I’m like, “should I have been a professional voice artist?”
We’ll be listening to an e-book narrated by Allie X someday. I think that would be really popular. How does it feel looking back on albums like Collxtion I and II, through what lens do you view those?
I’m really hard on myself, generally, but when it comes to past work I’m actually extremely compassionate and forgiving. I just see someone who was trying to be as authentic as she could at the time, who worked her ass off. Maybe certain songs could’ve been better but I needed time to develop. I think my records pretty accurately chronicle who I was and what I was feeling at that time. I don’t really have too many regrets, even though a lot of stuff I put out then I wouldn’t really put out now. I think it’s all fine.
Maybe from a listener’s perspective, years-long gaps between albums can make audiences impatient, but I do love getting to see where an artist was at separate times in their life. I did also want to mention, you have a classical training; you went to Interlochen?
You know Interlochen?
I’m a classical performance major.
In voice?
Cello performance. Not as cool as voice, but –
I mean, cello’s kinda cooler than classical voice honestly.
Do you think a lot of that versatility that you have comes from that classical background?
The versatility I have comes from a musical theater and classical background, becoming a classically trained singer, and then transitioning into popular music where my voice was overtrained.
Overqualified for pop music.
Yeah! But also, just aesthetically wrong, you know? If you’re a classical player you know that classical singers lift the soft palate and have vibrato and it doesn’t fit in this world [of pop]. Even when I’m listening back to the audio of these shows, I’ve definitely gotten a lot better, but my default on stage is always to go to that placement I learned. Any time I’m in a high pressure situation my voice is going to autopilot into that: very bright, forward sounds with vibrato. I’ll use my vibrato to find my pitch if I have to. So, I think my versatility comes from really being able to, at least in the recordings, maybe not live, to sound way less trained than my voice actually is. But also, in “Girl With No Face,” for instance, to indulge it sometimes.
[Allie breaks into the operatic interlude of “Girl With No Face,” very briefly]
It’s like a very visceral birdsong. I love the way that voice is sparse through the album but when that technique is there, it really becomes something of its own. It doesn’t sound like you’re listening to Pavarotti randomly. It’s very fitting.
That’s the cool thing about this record. It’s the first of the Allie X records where I found a place for my eccentricities and my theatricality in my voice. Vocally, it’s a really fun record to do. Cape Cod, my last record, I was really restrained. In this one, I got to let it rip and it still works. On a song like “Hello,” for instance – bless me and bless “Hello” when I wrote it, but – it sounds like you’re listening to a Broadway musical.
Theater kids are the backbone of the music industry. One thing I was thinking about when I was re-listening to the album was how it’s very 80s synth pop, which is coming back in a huge way, but it doesn’t sound like a snapshot of the current musical climate. It really sounds like you landed on that sound from a different path.
It’s very off-trend. It’s strange because of all my work, it’s the most referential. It’s very directly referencing New Order and all these artists from that time, but it’s also my most original album, which is interesting. That’s just my judgment of it but I feel like because it’s through this confident version of me, and trusting that my unique perspective is enough, it actually ended up sounding quite original despite how completely referential it is.
I forget which song it was, but I did think one of the tracks was Lebanon Hanover for the first three seconds.
I named a song “Saddest Smile” and they have a song called “Saddest Smile” which I didn’t know until after the record was done and I was like “Oh no! They’re going to think I’m copying me!”
I do feel as though well done references, especially in an industry where so much of new music is a sample with someone humming over it, are rare to see.
This definitely was a love letter to that time in the UK when punk turned into post-punk and New Wave emerged. And me just indulging myself.
You spoke about finding yourself and this confident voice. This album, at least to me, sounds like a real arrival point of all your albums. Where in the story of Allie X are you? A lot of people have called this album a resurrection, but it feels almost like a rebirth to me.
I’m flattered by both. Longevity is difficult when you’ve been doing it this long. I’m an old gal; just the fact that I’m relevant to you youngsters… It’s nice. I see that with Caroline Polachek as well. It feels like a really special place to be in culture, not easily achieved. I went away for a few years, not intentionally. I couldn’t really afford to disappear and be resurrected. But I guess I did! I didn’t mean to. When I heard the word “resurrection” it just means to me like “She was gone but she did enough that she’s still relevant, and she’s back”. Rebirth, certainly as well. In my choices that I made behind the scenes with how I run my business, I took over my management and I started producing. That kind of stuff takes a lot of willpower and guts. You have to be really tough, but I did it. On the creative side as well, I just really trusted my own instincts. All of that felt like a rebirth. It is such a tough transition, all of that, that now I’m still experiencing growing pains of taking that direction. I do think it’s all worth it, especially when we’re talking about sustainability and longevity. I can’t be a 50 year old trying to compete with Selena Gomez or something.
Competing with the new hottest thing?
Yeah. If I wanna keep going, it has to be something really authentic and something that is never going to be just a radio thing or trend of the moment.
Do you think the industry and audiences are seeking authenticity over personas right now?
I absolutely think so and it’s a really refreshing shift to watch. The J. Lo backlash is actually really interesting… I mean, the best consumers of music are usually young people, the youth culture. There’s nobody in this generation that’s interested in that sort of glazed, put-together, industry package anymore.
The factory superstar.
Yeah, yeah! And like, bless J. Lo, because she definitely seems like a hard worker and an ambitious lady. It sounds like she’s just been really rude to a lot of people, but I’m sure she works her ass off as well. But it’s been interesting for me to see that nobody’s interested in that prototype. In fact, we’re rioting against it. That makes me feel like, ok, that’s not me at all, so that helps. I stand a chance in that regard.
Even the new superstars, like Chappell Roan, their whole thing is being self-made. It’s not Columbia Records handing you this new girl.
It’s so interesting. It’s an exciting time, I think, and I think all the labels are scrambling.
You produced this album. How did producing the album change the way you viewed it as you worked on it?
You definitely take more pride in it. When you made the cake from scratch versus the box mix, you’re like, “Yeah, I made this from scratch!”. I don’t know if it’ll be an accurate representation of who I am for the rest of my life, but certainly in this moment. That’s me in there: the things that I feel, all my eccentricities of performance, my story. I’m singing very directly for the first time, instead of poetically or metaphorically, about having a body that doesn’t work a lot of the time and the rage that I feel towards the industry, toward men. I just put it all out there and it feels quite good to tell the truth. I don’t know if you relate to that, but I love honesty. It feels so good when you can just let people know who you are and how you feel.
Speaking of body rage, I did want to talk about “Off With Her Tits”. My first time listening to that was really potent. One of my favorite things that you’ve done for the visuals on this tour is the top with three sets of latex tits. Can you talk to me a little bit about the process of writing that song?
“Off With Her Tits” was one of those titles that popped in my head randomly. You’re a writer, you probably have a note on your phone with various ideas that pop in your head to use at a future date. I had [Off With Her Tits] in that note for maybe a year. I don’t know if I’ve said this in any other interview but I actually had an Attempt One to another producer’s beat that I liked, and it wasn’t quite right. I was at a family Christmas vacation and I was feeling really… My sisters have kids and I just felt like a freak and I went into the other room and I started making the beat that became “Off With Her Tits”. Just into my computer mic, feeling dementedly manically like, I was laughing. It felt so authentic and in the moment. That’s how that song came about. Then I got super sick and didn’t listen to it for like six months. I didn’t even know if it was good, I couldn’t remember. I opened up the file later in 2022 and was like, “Oh wow, this actually kind of sounds like a single”.
You mentioned in a previous interview that “if it hurts, it’s working” and how that may not be the most healthy mindset but it’s very present. That is something I think about a lot, and it’s so present in media –
Do you feel the same way?
I do, but I’m never sure about the veracity of the statement. In the moment I feel prolific, but I’m not sure about how the product translates.
I have many toxic traits but that’s definitely a big one. It’s for a few reasons. One is because I always worshiped my dad, and he had an incredibly difficult childhood that I won’t talk about in this interview. I equated success to overcoming a massive obstacle from a really young age from listening to his stories. Then I got really ill when I was quite young and I almost thought, “this is my obstacle,” and I welcomed it.
As sort of a “this will bring me success”?
Then I’ll be as special as him. I’ve certainly embodied that over the years and I’ve put myself through incredibly physically painful and uncomfortable situations with this idea that I’m overcoming and I’m this tough person. At this point, at this age, I’m like “Shit, what have I done?” I gotta let go of this. In most situations in my life, I feel like I’m now attracting difficulties, chaos. It’s almost a talk for me and my therapist, I guess. It’s mostly a problem. It’s this very deeply ingrained philosophy I have that if it doesn’t hurt it’s not meaningful, it’s not working. Nothing should be too easy.
Do you think it’s true? Have you found that suffering brings out a more raw or passionate product?
Yeah, it definitely can. This whole process of trying to liberate myself in these various ways was enormously difficult and enormously rewarding, so I’m not exactly having my theory proved wrong, so it just keeps it going! I don’t want to put this out in the world, but I do feel like I can’t survive that long like this. Eventually, something’s gonna…
Something has to give.
Something has to give. I’ve experienced that definitely with chronic illness and getting sick and sick and sick over and over again but I mean, like, [laughing] I’m gonna die, I’m literally gonna die. I really need to change my ways.
Do you think becoming your own producer and taking back forms of management is a way to restructure that whole thought process?
I actually do. I did it with that intention of trying to change my life and make a more peaceful life for myself but the irony is it was one of the hardest things that I’ve ever done. I really hope that those efforts do result in me laying a foundation on which I can make some real change. Giving myself enough power and sustainability, taking away all the shadiness of all of the people that I used to work with, the confusion of the kind of music I should make. Making it into this really pure thing, I think, could be a really great foundation for me having a really peaceful and authentic life. [Pauses briefly]. This is a great conversation. [Laughs].
Thank you for having it with me. Do you think this album is more of a reflection of the storm or the coming peace?
The storm, for sure. Maybe that’s why it was so difficult to do, because there was so much pent-up chaos inside of me that needed to come out. I’m not sure. I’ve got early sketches of the next possible album and it’s sounding way more reflective.
Can we expect to see a deep sigh after this?
Wouldn’t that be great? I’m even thinking of moving, I’ve been trying to get out of Los Angeles if I can. It’s just complicated. Ultimately I would love to move somewhere that’s a little quieter, a little more nature.
An Allie X folk album, maybe?
Oh my God, a folk album. I don’t know. Are you coming to the show tonight?
I am, I’m very excited.
I’m playing this new demo in the set, it kinda sounds Fleetwood Mac-y.
I do think one of the reasons folk music is coming back in such a big way is because people want the calm after the storm. At the same time, people still clearly need to process rage. That’s what I think is special about this album.
It feels very good to perform this album. I’m still letting it go when I’m performing it.
Does the performance cycle of this album feel different than past albums?
It does. It’s the most fun to perform of all the albums by far. Obviously I’m not a rock artist, but this one, because it has those post-punk roots, I feel kinda like I’m doing a rock show.
It looks intense to perform, inhabiting all that energy for that long. Do you still feel you’re still putting on a persona onstage for the performance?
I still feel like I’m putting on a persona but if this is me in sweatpants eating a snack and this is me as Allie X stage persona, with this album they’re close. They used to be really… In Collxtion I and II, I felt like I was a mannequin.
Does it ever feel nice to have that space? As a recognizable figure –
[Laughs]. A somewhat recognizable figure, yeah.
Do you feel that it’s positive to have a space between what people see you as and home you?
I think so, yeah. In some ways, the fact that I’ve never blown up, that only a niche group of people, has been good for me. I obviously want my business to grow and I want my audience to grow but I don’t really care to be more famous than I am right now. That sounds like I’d just be inviting more problems in. If there’s a way to have both where you’re not getting spotted all the time but you’re also able to go to Japan and play a stadium.
Having a dedicated fan base seems better than people who like one song and might not follow through the next era of your music.
This tour, I’ve sold out pretty much the whole thing and I didn’t know if I would. It’s been years since I put something on sale. I do feel like it’s a great reward for the decade that I’ve been making music and the dedicated fans that I do have. You can get these massive numbers from having something go viral on TikTok, but you’re not necessarily going to be able to sell out a tour.
That’s the thing, virality doesn’t translate financially. “Bitch” went really viral on TikTok; it still is. Have you seen that translate into a different cultural presence?
Not really. It’s the song where if you were talking to someone and you ask, “Do you know Allie X?” They’d say, “Oh, no, I’ve never heard of her,” and then you’d play that song and they’d say, “Oh, I know that song”. I always open the show with it, especially if I’m opening, because instantly people can connect.
Are you hoping to make a new “this is the girl from that song”?
You know what I hope for? The accidental hit. When you’re writing, the idea of making a hit song usually doesn’t work, it usually ends up being pretty lame. But then you have songs like “Royals,” or “Pumped Up Kicks,” or “Take Me to Church,” where it just happened to be a fantastic song that just happened to resonate. Something like that would be great.
Something genuine.
I think my job and what I did on this album for the first time and what I’ll continue to do is just write stuff that I feel really strongly about, that makes sense to me, without any format in mind and just hope for the best. I do think the odds are in your favor after a certain amount of time. If it’s a one in a million chance, if you write a million songs… [Laughs].