Chat Pile is a very fitting name for a band that has thrived in apocalyptic noise. The Oklahoman sludge metal quartet derives its tag from the word for contaminated waste, created by mining operations from the late 1800s and mid-1900s. A chat pile is a mountain of toxicity, a visualization of the very environmental decay conveyed throughout Chat Pile’s discography. The piles themselves are byproducts of the rotten capitalism that is often critiqued in Chat Pile lyrics.
The band is currently rounding out their tour with Fleshwater. Hours before their show at Brooklyn Steel, Raygun Busch (vocals), Stin (bass), and Cap’n Ron (drums) met with me to discuss place, Hayden Pedigo, and their new project.
Graphic by Riannah Wallach
One of you are missing…
Stin: Luther Manhole, they had to cart him off to urgent care because he has a sinus infection.
Oh god. I hope he feels better soon, especially with a show tonight. How has touring with Fleshwater been going?
Stin: It’s going great. We’re like 12 shows in, probably. We’re kinda rounding out the end of it right now. We were a little nervous because Fleshwater’s audience is way young and we had no idea how they’d react to a bunch of old geezers on stage or whatever– but every show has just been incredible.
How young are we talking?
Raygun: Realllyyy young. Young enough to be our kids.
I heard you change the songs you do every night. How do you decide what to play, especially with such a different audience?
Stin: We actually don’t use a setlist at all. We just call the songs on stage. There are a few that we know we’re gonna play because everyone likes them- but there’s no determined time for them to start. We just get on stage and call songs out to each other.
I love that. Do you think that starting touring later than the average artist has worked out in your favor? How has that shaped your experience?
Stin: Big time. We’re all just responsible adults so we’re not doing anything that would get us into trouble or abusing our bodies too much or anything like that. The hard part is yeah, I’m 42 years old– so living in a van and eating diner food everyday probably isn’t the best thing for my body. But as far as drugs and alcohol and that kind of stuff– I’m well past that stage, so it probably came at the right time.
And this isn’t your first time in New York– what do you think of the city? I know we’re a cultural hub but every time I walk through Soho I feel like going on a Chat Pile-esque rant.
Stin: Well, these two [Cap’n Ron and Raygun] really hit the town last night.
Raygun: We went to Metrograph. Tonight’s our last night. Cool theaters. Obviously people here think they’re way cooler than they are.
Stin: Being from Oklahoma, it’s very crazy walking into a gigantic metropolitan city but we’re at a state in American life where anything you can get or do in New York City you can sort of do anywhere. It’s not like the 70s anymore– America has changed. That said, you guys have great pizza.
Yeah we do. Any favorite venues?
Raygun: We played LPR, Knockdown Center, and Vitus.
Liana: Rest in peace.
Stin: Vitus was legendary so it was so cool to get to play there before it shut down.
The city lost so much when it lost Vitus. Your music is commonly perceived as overtly political– especially with songs like Why or Shame. What is uniquely Oklahoman about your politics and the way you incorporate it into your art? What perspective do you get that someone here in New York wouldn’t?
Raygun: That’s an interesting question. We have our own different demeanor out there. I’m not saying that humanism doesn’t exist in New York City… but there’s that quality to our music. I don’t believe in God but I was raised in the church, and there are elements of that philosophy that are good. If you take away all the magic that is just what humanism is. So maybe that–
Stin: Oklahoma is one of the most conservative states in the entire nation so it’s easy to feel like you’re this emboldened leftist, because just by the nature of not being evil you’re fighting against everything that you are around all of the time. I don’t think we should pat ourselves on the back too hard but we’re definitely operating our political view of the world from a very staunchly religiously conservative place.
When dealing with these heavier political topics, how do you maintain such a strong creative output without burnout from the cynicism? Or without falling into depression?
Stin: Speaking for myself, making this type of music is catharsis for all that negativity. It’s actually almost therapeutic. While some people might just think that we just sit and live in the muck the whole time, performing/writing these songs helps get all of that stuff out so ultimately it kinda makes me feel better.
Raygun: Yeah when I’m writing stuff it gets to be a little dark and heavy but at this stage it’s performing monologues for me. Not that it means nothing, but it doesn’t seep into my bones as much as when I write. I also feel good that we are a political band and that we talk about these kinds of things. It’s a net positive for me.
You’re using pseudonyms but the grit of your music carries such authenticity. Fans have said that it seems like you’re embodying a character when on stage. How different are the personas really, or are they just extensions of yourselves?
Raygun: We use pseudonyms because the Dead Kennedys did it.
Stin: Maybe to the extent that you get on stage and you feel confident because people are dancing around to the music you’re making, but I don’t really feel like I’m a different person at all.
Raygun: I’ll play a character within a song. As I’m delivering the lines and crying, when I’m being extra rough.
While we’re discussing characters– Hayden posted on Instagram saying that this new album features a lot of western picking. I know you’re a big cinephile. Did you draw from any western tropes? Were there any sonic moments that embody a certain scene or aesthetic? How did your love for film influence this project?
Raygun: I have a list. The films that I was inspired by while I was writing the lyrics for this one: Fail Safe, Miracle Mile, Doctor Strangelove, First Reformed, Ordebt, Threads, Escape from New York/LA, Terminator 2, Brazil, and Rich Hill. I like T.S. Eliot and novels too, but I take all of the influences and crash compact them into something new.
Stin: On the music side too, it’s more that it comes out of you and then when it’s done, we’re like ‘this kinda makes me think of this’.
Raygun: For sure.
Stin: Like a snake eating its own tail, where the song is constantly inspiring itself to be what it’s going to be.
Raygun: A lot of times it’ll reveal itself to me a long time after it’s written.
Have you read anything about yourself that you or your music that you thought was a misinterpretation of you– a lyric, a song?
Raygun: Of course. I’ve been misquoted completely in magazines.
Stin: It happens all the time in microdoses that are usually easy to ignore. The one that always gets under my skin is that people try to make us out to be this dark, scary, horrific experience. Or that listening to our music is soul-crushing. Don’t get me wrong, I love that our music has an emotional affect on people but we are a rock band– if you go to our concert, you’re gonna dance. I wish people understood that part of the band better or acknowledged it.
Of course. In your interview with Anthony Fantano, you mentioned that playing the Chat Pile sound 20 years ago wasn’t received well. You’ve obviously evolved, but what do you think has really caused it to be received well now?
Stin: The 90s are extremely cool right now, people are open minded to American underground indie rock sounds of the 90s. And we’re in such a dark place spiritually in America/the world that people are more open minded to bleaker music.
I know you guys just went full time recently, what were you doing before? What did your day-to-day look like?
Stin: I had a boring office job for 20 years.
Raygun: I was managing a movie theater.
That adds up.
Cap’n Ron: I built guitar picks.
Stin: He still does that, it’s in the rock universe already so they’re cool with it.
Didn’t you work at the Oklahoma Tourism and Recreation Department? Were you getting paid to make Oklahoma sound appealing?
Stin: That is quite literally what I was doing. I worked media relations in the tourism department. My job was basically to pitch Oklahoma as an attractive place for journalists to come and have a vacation and then write about the vacation, and then inspire people to come to Oklahoma. It’s funny because as ridiculous as it sounds it was also helping a bed and breakfast to get people staying at their place.
Liana: I was thinking of the contrast between that job and the bleakness in your music, where Oklahoma sounds anything but appealing.
Stin: Part of my job was to drive around every little corner of the state and you would see so much horrific garbage everywhere you go. You’d feel so dirty being like “Yeah come to Altus, Oklahoma, they have a radio! They also have a guy who will steal your carburetor!”
You’re always posting those insane car crashes on Twitter– is that how you ended up witnessing all of those? I mean for a state that was literally built to be driven in–
Stin: We played Oklahoma in the middle of this whole tour and I took our tour manager out to eat on our day off. A car literally crashed into the restaurant while we were there. This is a real thing that happens all the time. When I post that stuff it isn’t even the state as a whole it’s literally just Oklahoma City. My theory is that because we are such a car culture city and since everyone is in their car and there’s nothing to do but drink, people are getting hammered and driving the cars into buildings at all times of the day in Oklahoma. My theory doesn’t even really hold true either because we’ve been to LA a bunch now. Another car city. People there are courteous and drive really well. It’s definitely a cultural thing of aggression and kamikaze nihilism from Oklahoma City.
I know you guys were all in the same local underground scene in OKC, how exactly did you all meet?
Stin: It’s a little hazy because Oklahoma City is just like a big small town in a way. If you are friends with people who are into underground counterculture stuff of any kind, you tend to just sort of run into everybody. We bonded over our more obscure indie rock stuff that we like. We’ve been friends ever since. Big small town stuff.
Indie rock has been cited as a big influence for your sound, but so have nu-metal bands like Korn. You all obviously have different sonic preferences as musicians. How do you compromise to create what we’re hearing?
Stin: We kinda just all contribute our parts and the parts turn into Chat Pile. The biggest compromise is between me and Luther Manhole since we’re the ones writing the music part of it. Sometimes our ideas might not totally mesh but it’s not as much as you would think. One of us brings in something and the other builds off it. We don’t give each other too many notes.
What bands are you all on the same page about?
Raygun: Nirvana, Rage Against The Machine, Black Sabbath.
Stin: Sonic Youth, too. Nirvana is the real glue of everything because our song structures are very Nirvana-esque
That one’s pretty easy to hear. You once said ‘vape metal’ is the corniest genre to exist… Could you expand on what vape metal entails?
Stin: Vape metal is kinda an offshoot of djent type music. Matrix infused electronic aesthetic with bad YouTube guitar riffs and usually a guy older than me dressed in full leather. 9 times out of 10, European.
Raygun: What are some vape metal bands?
Stin: I couldn’t tell you because they’re so bad. You don’t remember all of it. I’ll put on the rock music video channels on the TV and it is confusing when you get a lane of metal. You’re like man I’ve never heard of this, dorkiest thing that I’ve ever seen in my life, and it’ll randomly have 10 million spotify monthly listeners. I feel out of touch with the common man in that way.
I found you guys through your Sepultura cover a few years ago. What makes a good cover? Do you feel called to do another?
Stin: It comes down to being able to capture the spirit of what made the original song good. You can put your own spin on it but as long as you’re injecting it with the spiritual intent of the original song. That makes a good cover. A bad version is like Disturbed doing the sound of silence where it’s like they are just putting the song out again for the purpose of cashing in on the familiarity. It’s sterile.
Raygun: It’s bad.
Stin: The reason you want to cover a song is because you love the song. You kinda wanna feel like you’re the guy that wrote it.
Any specific songs/bands you’d want to cover next?
Raygun: Well we’ve got one in the chamber…
Stin: We have another Nirvana cover coming out, because they’re the one thing we can agree on, and Nirvana songs are incredibly easy to learn. We don’t want to waste two months trying to figure out a Yes song.
You scored Tenkiller in 2022. Would you ever want to score another film? Any dream collaborations?
Stin: Yes, people kinda lightly offer that to us all the time but nothing is set in stone
Raygun: Luther and I would love to work with Panos Cosmatos. We’ve met, he’d be awesome. We’re friends with this guy Riley Stearns, he directed the “Radioactive Dreams” video.
Stin: We’re pretty open minded. Scoring a movie is a lot of work. If we were to do it it definitely has to be worth our time.
And your time must be especially limited with the release of a new project. How did that collaboration come about?
Stin: Hayden lived in Amarillo his whole life but a year or two ago he moved to Oklahoma City, and he was new to town so he hit us up on Instagram. I told him to come to the show and we hit it off instantly. The house he was renting with his wife was a block away from my house, where we record. So we said we should do a song together, met at a tiki bar to discuss it and then decided to do a whole album. Two days later, we put guitars in everybody’s hands, and just started working on it. It ended up being the easiest record we’ve all ever made before, and all came together in four weeks.
That’s awesome. How did recording it in the home studio define the record’s character, if at all?
Stin: It allows us to take our time and experiment in any way we want to. If we were in a studio that we were paying for there would be so much pressure to just crank out an album so that you’re within budget. Or take short cuts too– it forces us not to be lazy. So we can really spread out, take our time, and work whenever we want to. It helps that there are no restraints from a financial or time angle.
How has the making of this album allowed you guys to enrich artistic sensibilities in new ways?
Stin: There are some improvisational elements on the record and that is typically not the Chat Phile way. Also writing songs that have a lot of space and emptiness in them. It’s very different from the typical Chat Pile experience.
Raygun: There’s acoustic guitar stuff, I mean I play guitar so it’s a little bit different.
Stin: A big thing about it too is just, like, basically having Hayden be a member of Chat Pile for a month. That fully changes the dynamic of the way you communicate with each other and the expectations you have for each other musically. It’s really a major disruptive force in a positive way to get out of those old habits and create something in a new process.
Are you planning on playing these ones live with Hayden at any point?
Stin: Probably not, we made this album so spontaneously that it did not keep in mind any of our busy calendars. Logistically it would take up so much time that it wouldn’t seem worth it to us but Hayden now lives in our neighborhood, so we will probably do more projects with him. As that happens, I could see a future where we would do a tour together or something but not in the immediate future.