Old cardigans, battered jeans, fishnet tights, and androgynous hair. While the grunge ‘aesthetic’ has made a rampant comeback on social media platforms over the past few years, many criticize those scurrying to fit into this category as attempts seem inauthentic and surface level. Some argue that these kids are failing to truly understand grunge culture and the history of grunge music.
Unfortunately, 90s grunge rock band Bush faced a similar struggle when beginning their musical journey, as they too battled accusations of imitative intentions. However, as this reappraisal of grunge occurs, Bush remains a definitive band of the grunge scene, with a legacy that has now been encapsulated by their new Greatest Hits record, LOADED.
Gavin Rossdale, the frontman and founder of Bush has quite a few blazing achievements under his belt. During their lifetime, the band has sold over 24 million records and headlined the first night of the legendary Woodstock ‘99 festival. Aside from the music, Gavin also spends his time exploring literature and the culinary world.
This May, I got to chat with Gavin and discuss both his musical endeavors and extracurriculars. We also got to spend some time honoring the late, great Steve Albini and his work with Gavin.
[Note: This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.]
I saw you open for Alice in Chains in September 2022 in California, so the first thing I noticed when you announced the LOADED tour was that Jerry [Cantrell] was opening for you this time around. How did that happen? What was the process behind getting him onboard?
He’s a good friend of ours and we loved opening for Alice, I sang a few songs with them here and there. It was fun to say stuff like “I’ve got to go, I’m in Alice in Chains”. If you’re in a rock band and you want to do a solo record it’s really hard- I did it myself and people were like “Get back in the band”… Jerry’s the only person who can do a solo career. I’m just worried because now we’re responsible for the sales and he’s not. It’s a free ride for the support and the main act just hopes the support brings a few people. But generally, you can’t operate thinking that anyone else is going to help you with that stuff. 15,000 people? You better fill it.
How did you guys choose the songs? I remember when you first announced the record you faced some angry comments asking why “Cold Contagious” and “War Machine” were missing from the record.
Yeah, “War Machine” should’ve been on there. “Cold Contagious” was never a “hit” as a fan favorite- well, I don’t know, I’m not sure. Including “Cold Contagious”, there were five songs that didn’t make it. The idea was that we would just need two or three more hits– which we’re going to get from this next record, so then we can put out a Greatest Hits 2 and all those songs will be there. I had to get my management to tell me which songs and when I didn’t see “Afterlife” and “War Machine”, I was like, “I fucked up”. What are you going to do? If you fuck up, just clean it up afterward. We’ll do another version, Greatest Hits again!
Was the whole band involved in that process? How collaborative was the effort and how much attention was actually given to song selection?
It was just me talking to one of my two managers. One band member talking to one manager. I was just reticent about it, I was just reserved. I should’ve put “War Machine” and whoever said that is right, I’m with them.
Has any part of this brought about any concerns for you? Or from your fans? Specifically about the connotations of making a Greatest Hits album- the politics of it all? I understand it’s very retrospective.
Well the negative comments were mainly coming from me. I just thought it was a bit revisionist and it does give that sense that you are somehow just removing yourself slightly from the fray. You’re sort of celebrating and then going on a great holiday to Montego Bay or something. Having just completed the new record, I said I would do it as long as I could creatively continue. I’ve just recorded a whole new album, so that makes me happy. I got to write a new song for the Greatest Hits, while all the other songs were recorded previously.
So you aren’t concerned with it aging you at all? Have the comments got to you?
The best thing about life is that you think that everything matters, and then you come to the realization that nothing matters and no one cares. Nothing matters and no one cares! You’ve just got to do everything to keep yourself interested. I look at it as a celebration, which is a healthy way to see it.
As we discuss making a record, I feel it’s impossible not to discuss a very important man. Since we lost Steve Albini this month, I wanted to explore your memories with him and the amazing audio recording engineer [“not a producer”] that he was. Could we take a moment to reflect on your time with him and his work with Bush?
Of course. Thank you. This is incredible. It has been a very very difficult time.
My condolences.
Steve was a really great friend of mine. I feel really bad when I think about him. I’m going to go to Chicago soon on tour and I would’ve seen him in Chicago. Shellac has a new record, I’ve been listening to that. When you lose people there are tiers of grief. I’ve been speaking to some of the guys in the band and Bob, the bass player, was thinking “Wow, that part of my life is now resolved.” I felt bad for him and was humbled, as though my grief wasn’t as worthy as his grief. Then I spoke to Todd, who’s the drummer. He was saying that he’s spending the time just thinking about Steve, who he’s known for 40 years, just marveling about what he did outside of making music. Thinking of all his achievements with cooking, poker, and that fantastic annual giveaway that he did, Letters to Santa. Every year, they would do 24-hour plays, using the Chicago Theater Company- an amazing company. I did segments with Bush and recorded stuff. They had these 24-hour parties and concerts. Jeff Tweedy was really big on it, as well as all the other musicians that worked with Steve. They would get a load of money for it, and on Christmas day they would drive around, take letters asking for toys, and take both toys and $10,000 to these households. No questions asked. Steve hadn’t had a Christmas day in 20 years, just doing his charity thing. So yeah, I made that record with Steve because I thought he would be the best person to capture the band and how we played. I figured no one could record bands like him and I didn’t want to do hi-fi, highly coiffed, you know… I mean Steve’s nuts, he didn’t want to do any overdubs. I was like, “No overdubs??” He said “We can add an overdub if it’s compositionally intended”. Oh for fuck’s sake Steve… I would have to say, “I meant to put two guitars on this! When I wrote this song I was thinking it needs two guitars on this part or else it’s going to be fucking useless. Imagine only one guitar!” It was a great experience, and I’m very close with his wife Heather, who I have been in constant contact with. Again with the tier of grief, when I speak to his wife, I feel dumb saying anything about my grief. She is going through so much.
Wow. It also speaks to how many people loved him. I recall that he was well-known for not being credited for his work? From his Christmas operations to his musical achievements.
Yeah, did you know he was a prize-winning poker player? For the last game he played in Vegas, Heather rang me and said to call Steve because he had just won $150,000. This is a guy who prides himself on a blue-collar recording environment where he’s paid by the hour…
A giant.
He was a giant. And literally, my favorite band live. I love their records and I love them, there is no other band that I would choose to see. I would even choose Steve Albini and Shellac over Taylor Swift…
Understandable. Since you mentioned Heather earlier, I meant to ask you about her “bullshit” test. Can you share any insight into that? Were you just told that you had passed or were there some specific criteria?
I went for lunch with him and he came with Heather, and we had Greek food in Greektown, Chicago. It was so exciting because Surfer Rosa was a massive record for me. It was about how to do rock that wasn’t hair metal like Poison and Guns and Roses, who were amazing bands but I would never sound like them. When I heard the Pixies, I said ‘This is how I’m going to sound’. So then to do a record with Steve and hear similar drum sounds to the Pixies… I was in heaven about it. He makes quite hard abrasive records but I was so proud that we worked with him and made an amazing record. A really proud part of our history was with Steve.
I know his passing was very recent, so thank you for being willing to discuss his legacy. I suppose the tiers of grief also include music fans and the pain of losing someone you admire so greatly.
It’s weird because we just lost Paul Auster who was my favorite author and famous Brooklynite. For me, the greatest writer that I love to read over and over. It was weird because I didn’t know him yet I read so many books of his that led me to feel like I should know him. I felt some sense of ownership over his work.
Parasocial yet intimate?
Well with music my voice is in your ears, or you read someone’s words and they’re in your imagination. I felt like the lesson with that was that I should have reached out over the years and told him how huge of a fan I was. I should have told him how he’s helped my writing, he’s taught me how to juxtapose my words to get the maximum effect. Also, when Steve passed, I was thinking maybe I had given too much of my life to travel and to work. It inspired me to spend more time with my family and friends, I wasn’t expecting him to go at such a relatively young age. I got the text from David Yow from the Jesus Lizard, saying that Steve died. I called him right away, and as I waited for him to pick up I kept wishing that there was another Steve that we knew between us. Anyone but Steve Albini. Today, on The Today Show, I did “Glycerine” and “Swallowed” on piano and I’ve always wanted to do variants like that. I fantasized about Steve being the person to record us in that new way. Again, such a lesson that you can’t wait for stuff in life. Things happen. It’s all about making that effort. When you go out and venture into the world, great things happen.
You’ve been rather open about your family history and your move from London to LA. Where did that drive and motivation come from so early in your career?
Desperation, a refusal to compromise. The first few years of my tenacity were more connected to stupidity. It was really difficult, but I find that in order to find meaning in life, you must be of service to yourself. If you are following what’s in your spirit and what elevates you, that’s time well spent. We’re the greatest city in the world, New York. Or even with LA, there’s that element of chance, running into people and social ricochets. If you isolate yourself, the element of chance is gone. That passion is gone. Personally, I still take guitar lessons and am always thinking of what I could do better. I was even thrilled to walk into the hollow halls of NYU, I mean it’s incredible. Yeah, it’s a dump, but also the centrality of learning and information. As you get older, you come to the realization that you know very little. I missed college and tried to get my life together, making it look like I was an idiot who got it all wrong for many years. Even though I liked literature and books.
On Andy Frasco’s podcast earlier this month, you mentioned this same passion for literature and for reading literature of multiple regions. I know that you went straight from high school to chasing stardom, but did any of that initial love for reading and books transfer to your musicianship?
Of course. I did English, French, and Spanish in England. My whole career is based on words. My life is based on words. There are only so many notes and chords. The writing of the words is what has given us durability and what has sustained us throughout. Only by reading these people can you really understand the use of words. Paul Auster is my favorite because he is the most succinct writer. A paragraph of his is worth pages from other writers. He sets a seed and I feel so at peace when I’m reading him. Oh my god, there is nothing disingenuous about what he writes. I’ve got the New York Trilogy with me.
What’s your best Paul Auster recommendation?
Moon Palace and then Baumgartner which is a charming book I’m halfway through about a university professor.
On the fitting topic of university, if you had to go back to school right this moment, what do you think you’d be studying?
I’d love to go back. I would run. I think that English Literature would be huge for me. As well as anthropology, sociology, and psychology. Christopher Hitchens is my other favorite writer. He’s more fun because he’s on TV shows. For atheists, he’s the best, he’s the king. He goes up against great religious leaders- well, “great” sounds ironic because I don’t think any religious leader is great.
True.
He goes against the people who believe in God or one God, because of course- which one? There are about 1,000. Ironically, everyone who believes in God generally believes in their god as opposed to the other 999.
And now we’ve entered an unexpectedly interesting atheist segment…
Oh the best! Do a deep dive and you’ll have so much fun.
Will do. Let’s take a second to acknowledge all of the excitement with your family now. I know you’ve recently become a grandfather and celebrated your oldest son becoming 18-
Can they stop growing? For fucks sake!
Well now you’ve got this amazing capsule of your work through LOADED too. Has this record happening alongside these family milestones made you think about your musical legacy with them specifically?
I’m too nervous of the wrong answer with my family. I’m acting nonchalant with them. I just wrote a brand new record, an album that is going to be called I Beat Loneliness. Being behind my wheel of creativity right now and better than ever really turns me on and excites me. When you first begin, you write songs with no horizon. With so many things happening and a sign that life is moving on, it tells me that there is a limitation and a finite number of records. It makes me want to be a better editor. Inside, in terms of spirit, you don’t feel age.
In terms of a listener’s perspective, I understand the idea of not sensing age. As I mentioned, seeing you in 2022 felt just like watching the famous footage of you at Woodstock ‘99. I may not be the best person to speak on the subject of age, but the audience sees the same face and hears the same voice.
Oh no, you are. I love that. It’s the same for me. I don’t feel any different.
Backtracking to family, do any of these Greatest Hits have familial associations?
I get to take them out to dinner on account of people liking those songs. I’m just really proud of what we’ve been through as a band to sacrifice time with family and friends just as every touring band has done. I have great respect for those who do it.
Have you brought the kids along with you on any of the tours?
They come as much as they can and for the summer. It’s better to live by example and it’s good for them to see the reality of life through this balancing act.
This balancing act includes a couple more extracurriculars, if I’m not mistaken. Let’s get into @eatwithgavinrossdale. Is that cooking show still in the early stages?
I’m meeting them tonight and we’re shooting in September. We’re the closest we’ve ever been. It’s called “Rockstar Kitchen Chronicles”. They didn’t like “Eat With Gavin Rossdale”. I was like “I’m English, I can’t call myself a rockstar” but they said the buyers like it. So I came up with the “Kitchen Chronicles” part because Anthony Bourdain’s “Kitchen Confidentials” is in everyone’s DNA. Especially in New York and in the food world.
Is the idea still to bring on artistically creative people?
Yes, we want to get an insight into who they are.
If you could bring any person dead or alive onto the show, who would it be?
Jimi Hendrix.
Aside from these passion projects, it seems you have a deeper admiration of performing live. Can we expect more past LOADED?
Yes! I love it. It sounds a bit needy but getting your job right gives your life meaning. I’m surrounded by people who forfeit their own lives to work with me or help me, and their payoff is the show or moment of presentation. Taking your craft and being slightly OCD about it is important. If you don’t play every show like it’s your last show, you have no business playing that show. A bored person on stage is a boring show, that’s when life loses meaning.
Especially now that fans have to give so much to attend these shows.
I mean people come up to me and say that they named their son after me. Imagine being named after someone who turns in mediocre work, plays a show like they’re bored, and can’t be bothered with the people who like them. All those things are really important to me. I don’t know how to say it to those people, but I’m thinking to myself, “Aren’t you glad that I haven’t lost myself to acoustic mediocrity?” Instead, I’ve found heaviness.
